Forum - View topicOnline critic / satirist offers different perspective on Grave of the Fireflies.
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4082 |
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In reality, one kid dies and the other writes a story about it. And that's the reason I can't watch this movie; It's not because I know the ending, it's because I know why it was written in the first place. There's impersonal, personal and then there's this which is more of a "I suck because these are the choices I made" semiautobiographical mess. In a war where over forty million people died, I just don't see the point in enshrining the author's guilt as something unusual or at least special. I imagine there were a lot of people who did things they weren't proud of in order to survive as I know there's even more who died. A million people died in the firebombing of Tokyo, then there's Hiromshima and Nagasaki and don't get me started on Pearl Habor but here two kids are suffering! They're innocents! War is indeed hell! And life does not have a plot? Are you familiar with the military and political machinations behind WWII? Foreshadowing, heroes and villains, climaxes, anticlimaxes and the whole things's just a retread of the first one. All sequels are just bigger with better explosions after all. In short: Why bother with fictionalizing anything regarding WWII in order to make a point about war being bad? {Hey me. It's from the POV of Japan} Well, there is that, of course. |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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Hell, this movie doesn't even need to take place during the war. You could do the exact same film and make it be about the potato famine in Ireland, just have the mother and father taken from the picture early on through various other means. Aside from the fire-bombings, the war is just an unseen influence on the main problem of the film, food rationing.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18189 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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You're right that this movie's story could be set in a myriad of other time periods; only the bombing scenes near the beginning and the scenes of Seito and Setsuko's ghosts near the end are specific to this particular setting. But I don't see that such a point matters. classicalzawa: There's absolutely nothing wrong with disliking this movie. I'm not a fan of it myself and only rewatched it to do my recent review of it - and then only because I got sent a review copy. I respect the movie but I definitely don't like it, and I think the majority of people who rate the movie highly would probably agree with that statement if they were being honest. As for the rest, I've pretty much said what I think about the movie in my March review so I'm not going to rehash it here. Last edited by Key on Mon May 21, 2012 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Veers
 Posts: 1197 Location: Texas |
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I'm tempted to agree with this, but I have to first define "like" as "watching it is an enjoyable experience." I have watched this movie once or twice, some years ago (via what I think was actually a bootleg, I never confirmed, though) and it made a pretty lasting impression in my mind. I bought the remastered version recently and immediately shelved it because I have simply not felt like subjecting myself to the film again lately. Not because I think it's a bad film, but because it's just really hard to rewatch without being in a very specific mood. I don't take offense at the message of the film or its delivery, and I'm glad I've watched it, but it's not something I "like" in the sense of "welp, I'm bored this weekend, let's watch Grave of the Fireflies again!" |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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That was a very interesting and informative review. I never knew that Takahata said that Grave of the Fireflies was not a war protest film. I don't even know what to make of that quote.
I saw the film years ago, and I didn't like it either. Not only is it emotionally manipulative, it made me angry. Not at the kids, but at the aunt, and more broadly, an entire country/society that had absolutely no recourse for starving orphans, at least according to the film. I'm curious about the original novel and how the source material was used in the film's script. |
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EricJ
 Posts: 876 |
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That's okay, I'll be happy to pick up whenever you feel like leaving off. 
I've suffered the exact same identical isolation and misunderstanding all these fifteen years for wanting to punch this whiny self-centered little creep, while all the other fans around me were busy fan-evangelizing "You have to see this movie, it's so TRAGIC and unlike Western animation and stuff! And Miyazaki directed it! (sic)" This, coming at a time when it was one of only three movies CPM had subtitled on VHS and you could rent at all, which limited the possibilities for what titles you could evangelize/force on innocent bystanders. Now, maybe it's that I haven't lived through Japanese postwar starvation, and might come off as insensitive to tell Punky Snotboy to pull himself up by his bootstraps and give us a decent A-B story about Japanese youth showing resiliency in a time of tragedy by rebelliously hauling carts or uniting other orphans to start an independent farm, or something-- But to me, it came off more like the difference between Japanese and Western tragedy, where the Japanese tend to mind their own business, and "tragedies" are just things that happen during a tragic time, whether there's any actual point to them in the end or not. Just be comforted that you are not alone. |
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walw6pK4Alo
Posts: 9322 |
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I like how this is turning into a self-help session for those who don't praise Grave of the Fireflies. At least in Empire of the Sun, the little kid grew up and learned how to survive, by any means necessary. And this whole thread is making me wonder how the actual story it's based off of played out, what really led to him inadvertently killing his sister, how he eventually survived, and what he took from it.
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ailblentyn
 Posts: 1688 Location: body in Ohio, heart in Sydney |
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I'll take all of you on.
@errinundra I disagree with you completely about the "There's No Place Like Home" sequence with Setsuko. I find it effective precisely because it's not straightforwardly sentimental, but infused with Takahata's irony. I think the viewer is meant to think it's a sappy flashback to happy times, as the song is insisting. But actually the flashbacks are spoiler[frightful, of her playing alone and starving. We're primed to mourn her death, but we should be mourning her life.] And I have no problem saying I "like" the film. It may be grueling, but I think it affords the narrative pleasures of tragedy. Unlike Barefoot Gen, which I think exists beyond all that, and wants to make you bawl because, like a nasty medicine, it's good for you! Last edited by ailblentyn on Tue May 22, 2012 4:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7357 |
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Lol, can't say I disagree with you there, but I feel like I kinda need it. And I can't just go to a therapist, I highly doubt they've seen the movie, it'd be like talking Pokemon strategy with them, I highly doubt they've played that either (and if they have, I want them as a therapist right now). It's like Grave of the Fireflies haters are one of the acceptable targets of the internet, I find I'm usually called a "monster" if the person is being nice. I don't generally consider myself to be a bad person, but it's like hating this movie automatically brands me as a bad person. So I think more people dislike it than it seems because I think a lot of them feel like they might be the only ones. I can't really name too many anime that not liking it brands you as a sub-human or something. And "like" is a strange word to use for GotFF even for people who do "like" it, let's just say "consider it to be a good movie" rather than "like". Every anime will have its fans and haters (even Eiken has likers, I think), but usually I find conversations go "you don't like Anime X? Whatever, man" instead of "you don't like Anime X? You're a horrible human being" with only GotFF eliciting the second response. But yeah, what you mention about the original novel, obviously the guy survived to write the novel, that might make a far more interesting movie if he actually learned something from the whole thing (and odds are he did, if he wrote the novel as "an apology" for his sister's death where I somehow doubted the kid in the movie was actually all that sorry) |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Eight years have passed and people are still arguing about whether should one feel sad after watching Grave of the Fireflies.
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walw6pK4Alo
Posts: 9322 |
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What makes people take offense if you dislike or criticism this film could at least in part be blamed on some war guilt. I don't really feel any though, as I know the Japanese committed some pretty awful atrocities in China, even though that has little to do with the struggles of some orphaned children. But as Bennett says, the director says this isn't even about the war, it's just watching starving children die to illicit an emotion without much context. I think I'm going to have the revisit the film, but that won't change that I feel hatred for the brother for being prideful, dying, and no real message in the end other than "don't be like him".
After reading that quote that the author wrote, it gives some more perspective into the story. But that's information not afforded to the viewer from the film. Maybe the effect would play out differently if he was presented as just that callous and uncaring youth who would have wanted her dead so he could go play more. But that's him in real life, not the boy from the story and that massive difference must be noted. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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You are all heartless monsters.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Why, thank you, doctor. 
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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A funny thing about this comment is that I was watching some Doctor Who when I read it, where the Doctor was calling some humans monsters. Kind of trippy. |
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EricJ
Posts: 876 |
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[quote="classicalzawa"]
The postwar years still push tragic/guilt Topic buttons with the Japanese in the late 70's/early-80's, like the US had with "important" Vietnam movies. One of the reasons it was originally shown in a double feature with Totoro is that Miyazaki kept describing the Totoro setting as "a happy house in the postwar farming countryside", and studios said "You're giving us a HAPPY postwar film?" And again, I could pass Fireflies off happily as a noble famous-book failure with no resentment, if it weren't for the title's overblown reputation symbolizing three most annoying aspects of "gang-rape" anime fan evangelism for trying to get newbies hooked: - The "Ancient Ritual", of the title you first saw, from hearing about it from another fan for whom it was the first title they saw, and wanted to make it the first title the next fan saw, etc., etc., dating back to the caveman days of three CPM and Streamline VHS's on the Alternative Animation shelf at Blockbuster. - The "Take THAT, Disney!" factor (also dating back to the resentment of the 90's Eisner years) that you should watch only the boldest, most shocking anime to show how different anime is from US animation!--They'd never do this one, it's so TRAGIC! Kids DIE, and stuff! - The "Cult Cure-All", that any new fan anywhere is just waiting to be converted to anime for life upon the very first viewing of Fireflies, Evangelion or Howl's Moving Castle. Of course it'll work, it works with everyone! (I don't recall which fan forced the title on Roger Ebert as symbolic representation of "all anime", but let's go after him.) Anyone who's ever gotten into an argument with fans trying to push them into a "must" screening of Tree of Life before last year's Oscars ("It'll change the way you see the world!") will know exactly what I'm talking about. ("But I don't want to see the birth of the freakin' universe!!") I'm not singlehandedly punishing the movie for its fans; I'm just annoyed at the movie and punishing the fans.
Last edited by EricJ on Tue May 22, 2012 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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