Forum - View topicREVIEW: Ghost Stories
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antonmonter
 Posts: 45 Location: nowere |
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Thanks for the answer, so I may ask in which of Burrough's novels he uses the afore mentioned techniques? About your question if you give me some time I can send you a scan of the results of my JLPT lv 3 日本語能力試験３級 that accredits about 3 years of study of the Japanese language. About my english, its obvious that I'm not a native speaker of the language, so, it would be nicer to make me notice about specific errors in the grammar/spelling of my post. |
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Saphiro01
 Posts: 71 Location: California |
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I read this thread in it's entirety and didn't find anyone to solely agree with untill I read your post. I actually DID yell FU at my screen when I read that line. Japanese Anime is just that, JAPANESE. If you don't want to take the time and effort to read up on Japanese in jokes and humor than your watching the wrong media. I have found anime so much more enriching and culturally gratifying as I have learned more on the side of my favorite past time. On a personal note I happen to dislike ADV's translation practices (this is not exactly winning me over to thier side btw). IF they are so dedicated to the media they need to create an acurate dub along side the parody. I have no problem with MST3K-ing something. But something to bare in mind is that most Japanese humor requires highbrow knowledge. Thus the art part. Thus the reason why the masses need to gain interest first, not quite understand what they saw, and do research to better understand what it truly is. If you are so lazy that you can't take the time to look at liner notes or try to understand something that was obviously funny (just not to you), then you won't care anyway. I find that kind of thinking immature to tell you the truth (read that as unadult-like; not an insult I asure you as many people are not adults but are anime fans  ). I hold anime fans to a higher standard than the common joe shmo in America. Anime fans have always been well educated people who appreciate thinking (there are exceptions of course). The evidense of this is the mature answers in this thread.
What ADV is doing is within thier rights. But if they do something like this to one of MY favorite series I will NOT be buying it. That simply encourages more Initial D's and the bad dubbing practices of the early 80's and 90's. If you don't think an anime title will sell, do some fansub and fanbase research at cons for goodness sakes. Taking risks can be the best thing in the world as a payoff... But please don't alienate or insult anime fans that sometimes feel like reading and sometimes just don't. If you can't tell by now, I'm a watcher of both sub and dub and pick whichever fits my mood and that I like better. |
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linlinchan
Posts: 286 |
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Uh... congradulations? There are plenty of people that speak Japanese and don't get all pissed off about dubbing being a crime against all that is holy. (Myself included. As long as we're measuring dicks, I might as well tell you that I passed the 1級 2 years ago.) Anyway, anime is first and formost a products. No one makes anime or manga simply for the hell of it. The artists make manga perhaps because they love it, but if that were the only case, no one would fight with the deadlines and hard schedules of a manga magazine, and instead would simply post their works online at their leisure. |
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imppilot
 Posts: 6 |
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I'd like to say that I really enjoyed this series. Its a semi-sequal to Haunted Junction (they make billions of references) and my club at school liked it. So...I guess I'm just strange
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Romuska
 Subscriber Posts: 799 |
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I don't know whether to be pissed of or excited. ADV has always had a knack for comedy (or at least since Goldenboy). To be quite frank I was actually going to buy this show anyway because I saw a couple of episodes and I was satisfied with the way it was. But on the other hand purist who were planning on purchasing this show were probably going to avoid the dub anyway. I know I was, but I deffinitly going to have to check out the dub just to see how much they messed with it. It sounds like something my friends and I would enjoy.
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hikaru004
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I also enjoyed the original series. I found the clip on GATV's website to be funny and kept the spirit of the original. However, I still hope that a dub of the original script will be available (like Milk-chan) because dub anime fans may not want to sit thru the sub version and will not experience the original series if the dub deviates too far from the original.
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theoriginalbilis
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That was pretty damn funny, I gotta say. I've never actually seen the show in Japanese, but this dub is what makes me want to check it out.
I must be the only guy on the planet who thinks Steven Foster's work is awesome. I loved his work on Saiyuki, I thought his adaptation of Cromartie High School was much funnier than the original, same goes with Milk-Chan. I understand Japanese culture well enough, but sometimes their concept of "humor" doesn't really work for me, so I'm all for wacky American humor, baby! Comedy is one of the hardest things to translate to a foreign market. If a dub can make the English translation funny, then great. For example, FLCL had some obscure references to certain Japanese celebrities, bands, and magazines. But the dub basically used an American equivalent, and I thought it was just as sound as the Japanese version. I'm probably going to hang for this, but I loved every bit of the Orphen dub. I never felt that the script or the acting felt out of place.... Do you think The Simpsons in Japanese sticks to the US script all 100%, I dunno..... I'll buy the DVD when it comes out, so I can see if the whole dub is a hilarious one. Plus, you subtitle snobs can quit whining, there's the original Japanese version on the DVD. This is something new and experimental, and I for one can't wait to see where this takes us. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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I know what I'll be doing with this show--watching the dub with the subtitles on; the best of both worlds and the solution to these problems!
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Dude, I've been watching anime for like 10 years now. I get all the in-jokes and cultural references. It doesn't go over my head, it just isn't funny, IMHO. Guy gets hit with frying pan, girl accidentally exposes her panties to someone, look it's a parody of a sentai show... most of the time anime comedy is really repetitive and hacky. Sometimes though you get a gem, like Cromartie, which was really funny. |
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Bara_Megami
Posts: 106 |
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It doesn't bother me so much what ADV is doing (so long as the subbed version is there - which I expect there will be, since that was the case with Milk-chan), but what bothers me is the tone in which is article was written. The author seems to be confusing his opinion with fact by saying stuff like "it doesn’t get any more banal or uninteresting than Ghost Stories". I can't be the only one who's wanted to see Gakkou no Kaidan, and the guy writing the article kind of comes off as an ass to me. I kind of felt like the whole article was ADV propoganda to me >_>;
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antonmonter
Posts: 45 Location: nowere |
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I agree. It was an infomercial, more than a review or preview. |
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hkrok76
 Posts: 118 |
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The problem is the fact that people are calling themselves "Anime" fans when they don't even like "Anime". Anime is a Japanese product. It's Japanese. Deal with it. If you like the dub of an anime, especially if it's altered to fit your normal sense of aesthetics and humor, that's fine, but realize you're not actually liking the original product, which is Anime. It isn't the same as liking Kung-fu movies. Kung-fu movies has kung-fu, and that's what you're looking for. You don't care what the people are saying. You need a story that carries you to the main point, kung-fu. Anime has no set goal like showing the viewer kung-fu. With Japanese animation, you take out the Japanese, and you get animation. I'm an animation fan, but first and fore most, I am an anime fan. Thus, I love that whole Japanese part of it. Reading comments like "Simply put, if you’re not the kind of fan who keeps a stick wedged firmly into someplace uncomfortable, you’re going to get a big kick out of the English dub of Ghost Stories. Purists won't have any fun, and that's a real shame." Really pisses me off. Who's to say I'm actually missing out on stuff or have a stick up my ass. Maybe I just don't like that kind of crap. I take offense, especially since it's in a feature of ANN. Kind of shows a leaning to one side of the spectrum, doesn't it? Us "purists" seem to be becoming more and more of a minority. Purity 4 life.
Anyway, that's my rant. On to my opinions about "Ghost Stories." I have no problem with them doing whatever they want with the dub. It's the dub. I am a "purist." I'm not going to watch it. So I don't care. I loved "Ghost Stories" and was surprised to hear it got licensed. I didn't hear that it got licensed until I read the dubbing announcement. I like Gakkou no Kaidan, and I have no problem with whatever ADV does to the dub, but remember, Gakkou no Kaidan is a kid's show. It isn't one of the highest quality kids shows out there, but it's a fun one in my opinion. So just because it isn't a GiTS:SAC or Fullmetal Alchemist, don't automatically say it's horrible. Domestically made kids shows are worse (some are better mind you, but not many). There are also shows geared towards an older crowd that are much worse. So lay off these kinds of attacks when you're presenting this. A show aimed at children isn't trying to be that original. Almost everything to a kid is going to be new. One thing I am really happy to hear though, is the fact that Gakkou no Kaidan is actually coming over. I would like to see more kids shows come over, as long as they do let me watch it in it's original format. Which is why I am cringing at 4kids bringing over Ojamajo Doremi....So if redubbing stuff and changing it completely to bring a product over is how it's gotta be done, so be it. As long as the video is unedited, and the original language track is on the dvds. More power to ya. |
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Andromeda
Posts: 119 Location: Florida |
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If you're not a native English speaker (let alone fluent), how on Earth could you really grasp whether or not the translation is good? Methinks someone's never seen Azumanga Daioh or Excel Saga's translation notes, if they're under the impression that ADV knows Jack %&$^ about Japanese language and culture.
By the way, on the subject of the Evangelion dub? You do realize, don't you, that most of the translation either came from stuff not being grammatically correct in English (ie, the Third Children became the Third Child), or due to requests from the original creators (ie, the fact that the Japanese term used for the "Angels" translates to something more like "emmisary", yet Gainax asked ADV to use "Angels"; same with the title's translation), don't you? I'm not too fond of the Eva dub, but it's not because of translation issues, it's because it was an early dub that was done by mostly inexperienced actors (though the woman who did Ritsuko was pretty darn good, as were several of the other cast members who did adult characters like the ol' Bridge Bunnies... I don't think a very good job was done with most of the Children or other kids, though. Why can't any dubbing studio seem to get the hang of doing kids? I could do kids' voices easily, and I'm willing to do VA stuff just for FUN! ). Really, if we're complaining about dub translations, you can't possibly say that Eva's dub, for instance, was worse than "Sailor Moon" or "Cardcaptors". Nothing was worse than what they did to those poor shows, especially CCS. At least this dub isn't a cut and paste job! I have to wonder if they WILL include a "regular" dub, though, or what extras there will be. I gotta love those extras, that I do. ETA:
Anime = just another word for animation, love. It's not even a Japanese word, for God's sake. It's French! 
Besides, did you completely not see where I said I would be watching BOTH versions (ie I will definately be appreciating the original for what it is), and be watching the dub with the eyes of someone who considered the dub a PARODY? Are you really that dim, so as nto to comprehend that perhaps some people don't take AN OBSCURE CHILDREN'S SHOW as seriously as you do? I can watch Utena subbed and still watch an effing parody fandub of it, you know. The only difference here is that the dub was made by someone who actually has a legal right to use the (copyrighted) animation!
Love, get a grip. I can watch and analyze Evangelion or Utena as well as any obsessive otaku and STILL enjoy a parody of a kiddie show I've never heard of. Not every FAN of (read: "person who enjoys") animation, even Japanese animation, has to be an anal retentive purist who can't just be happy with a #$#^ing sub, despite the fact that they'd probably never watch the dub anyway. There is such a thing as a fellow fan who doesn't have a stick up their rear, you know.
Right. Let's just ignore half of shounen anime/manga, including many martial arts titles and virtually all of DBZ, shall we?
Some anime's only point is to be fun or entertaining. If that's the main point, then who the frig cares if they mess with the dub. Especially since the STORY is apparently the SAME!
Not #$*^, Sherlock. I don't suppose it occured to you that the people who buy Japanese anime aren't EXCLUSIVELY buying Japanese anime? That some of us are looking for entertaining or interesting animation from ANY country, perhaps?
I can love anime (and do!), and therefore be a fan, and not give a darn what happens in the dub of a kiddie show I've never seen or heard of, you know. Not every fan has to be an obsessive, contrary to what you may wish were true.
Me too. I still think I'll enjoy the dub, especially after having watched the sub so that I know what they're parodying.
So do I, love. However, I LIKE seeing humor that fits my culture, since it's my culture it's being imported to. I also enjoy more "Japanese" humor, like that found in Azumanga Daioh. I can enjoy both, you know. I don't see why you think I apparenty can't.
Except, judging from this thread, that is very true. Sad how you're completely undermining your own arugment, isn't it? If you were a "regular purist", why would you get in arms about a comment like that? You're oversensitive. Hence, the description fits. I hate to say it, but it's true; you've proved the previewer/reviewer's very own point, that people who can live and let live will have more chance of enjoying the release and people who can't won't have any fun. You're not, are you? Well, don't blame ADV for your own unhappiness. It's you who chooses to be so damn unhappy about it. If you want an accurate dub, make your own. It's ADV's property now, and you can either allow yourself to get over it, or pop a few veins over it. Personally, I do believe the former is better for your health.
Oh I dunno, perhaps the fact that you seem to have declared verbal war over something as patently ridiculous as a parodical dub of an obscure children's cartoon show? Gee, sounds like you've shoved a stick up somewhere to me. By your own choice, which is probably the very reason you're being so irrationally defensive about it.
Then vote with your wallet, dear. Don't buy it if you don't like it.
So, vote with your bandwidth. Don't read ANN again. It's not anybody FORCED you to read, let alone agree with, the writer OR ADV's decision. Get over yourself, already.
Yes. A single article by a single writer who isn't even an editor for the site shows the entire (massive) site's leaning, which is going be always be against hardcore fans of any stripe. You poor, poor victim. Here, have a cookie.
LOL! 1337speak 4EVA!
Purists aren't neccesarily a minority. Purists who can't let a single minor offense slide by without starting a flame war or shoving a stick up their rear, thankfully, are (though unfortunately, a vocal one). Do yourself and your blood pressure a favor, and join the majority. You can prefer "proper" translations and still not blow your top everytime some minor, C-list anime gets a dub that didn't take the original seriously enough for your tastes. Purists are what got CCS and Sailor Moon subtitled releases over here. Purists are what got anime on Adult Swim, and what encourage Adult Swim to edit as little as possible. I have nothing against purists who simply prefer translations to remain as accurate as possible and like to watch and often prefer subs or really subperb, accurate dubs, and I'm sure the writer of the piece doesn't, either. What I DO have something against is purists who can't deal with reality not always shaping up to their wishes. Again - get over yourself. The world, including the general anime fandom, does not revolve around you.
I wasn't implying as such, but one should still not imply it's a work of art. It was meant to entertain children. That's not art, it's entertainment, and a form of business.
Um, exactly who implied that anime was inferior to American animation? I saw not one person who said anything of the sort, so where the hell are you getting that?
However, being that the show is Japanese, few parents will know about it over here and want to buy it for their kids (and if they still do, hey, let your kid become bilingual! It'll do them some good). ADV therefore - whether falsely or not - believes that attracting an older audience with a parodyish dub might aide sales. If it's nothing original, I still see no reason why a parody is inherently bad, unless it's badly done.
So, tell me again why on earth your rant exists up above? Sounds like you don't give a crap about the dub from this, but if we're to judge by your rant, do take capital offense over it. Please do make up your mind. -Andromeda |
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antonmonter
Posts: 45 Location: nowere |
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Interesting, hkrok76. I wrote a post like you, some pages before, and a few minutes later I received the same kind of reply from Andromierda, scolding me because I dare to complain about what I think it was a bad idea done by a mediocre company.
If it is (not sure if its a female or a male) an infiltrator from ADV I hope at least they give it some bucks for his work; if not, I don't know what someone who likes anime can win for supporting that company (even when it proves to be wrong). Last edited by antonmonter on Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Steventheeunuch
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Wait, is it so completely and totally out of the normal to be wrong, blaringly so? Point being, both he and you made misinformed posts, claiming it somehow as fact (ala the Enron comparison, and such). Regardless, what someone "wins" isn't the point and if that's the only reason you think people are here, then you're misinformed and misguided. People debate these things not nessecerally out of a "dire need" to protect or to gain brownie points, but because the sheer ignorance displayed must not go unchallenged lest it become a trend. What people need to realise is that just because you are entitled to an opinion, doesn't mean it's always appropriate or nessecary to voice it, and it most certianly isn't always right. The point is that what ADV have to gain is possibly increased sales on a product that really didn't have a lot of exposure beforehand. While there is artistic merit put into it and, infact, any other piece of art, one needs to realise that art isn't always free, and one form of art isn't always comparable to another, that is to say, the rules and conventions of Animation aren't the same as the rules and convention of theatrical plays. The comment about how "someone wanted a gold hairbrush" isn't exactly accurate, since I fail to see how ADV are making a mint, especially in their current position. They have to pay with real money and as a result, are entitled to certian artistic freedoms that other mediums do not allow the benefit of, because it follows different rules. And on top of that, still included an unaltered subtitle track, so what is there to complain about (apart from this being five years late/not at all or whatever else people always complain about, which is entirely not the point of this thread). |
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