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Steventheeunuch wrote:

What people need to realise is that just because you are entitled to an opinion, doesn't mean it's always appropriate or nessecary to voice it, and it most certianly isn't always right.

a little off topic but...

Well, its a tricky subject to tell what opinions are appropriate or necessary to voice, I can tell that yours or Andromeda aren't; but still I rebate your points, not your right to express such derogatory opinions against other fans (like me) that dislike ADV business practices.

And well, I don't care if you think I'm less an anime fan than you, because I had more than 10 years enjoying anime, and more than 3 years studying Japanese, so I'm over your qualification.

Of course I care if someone in this forum is an ADV employee, because this is a forum intended to anime fans, and the employees of a companied are trained to defend their business, but not to argument in a debate. Still, I hope ADV employees that infiltrate in this forum, can reply at least to some of the statements made by fans instead of trying to attack them on a personal level ("you don't know anything about Japanese language" "how you dare to write an opinion" and such...). Since some people here want to write in business terms, I think ADV must have to understand that negative posts in this thread are not an attack, but instead is "consummer feedback".

Still, looks like ADV needs to hire more people to post, because (at least in this thread) for every person defending them, there are like 3 that opposite. Perhaps, we all live in AntonmonterLand?

antonmonter wrote:

Well, its a tricky subject to tell what opinions are appropriate or necessary to voice, I can tell that yours or Andromeda aren't; but still I rebate your points, not your right to express such derogatory opinions against other fans (like me) that dislike ADV business practices.

That's far and beyond not the point though. How can it be considered a business practice when this is the first of it's kind to be done (atleast, by them), and when it's not openly marketted as such? It's hardly been used as a point-of-sale, being quoted and discussed mostly by fans or fan contraversy.

So far what I've stated have been fair rebuttals to your misinformed opinions that they're fatcats simply doing it to piss everyone off. This isn't to say that they aren't, but you've hardly presented us with any proof that they are.

So in total, the point was that you were essentially flame-baiting by bringing what is essentially non-relevant subjects up.

Quote:

And well, I don't care if you think I'm less an anime fan than you, because I had more than 10 years enjoying anime, and more than 3 years studying Japanese, so I'm over your qualification.

A silver dollar for everyone who has to assert their "position" in fandom and their internet anime penis level whenever they're in a sensetive position. I don't give a damn what you know or how long you've been into it; you subsequently also don't care since you don't know how long I've been into it and how much Japanese I know. Wanna know something? It doesn't matter worth a shit since there is nothing that goes by "Anime Fan" that seperates me from you, from zac, or whoever. We all are fans of Anime, weather it be in one form or presentation or another.

[/quote]Of course I care if someone in this forum is an ADV employee, because this is a forum intended to anime fans, and the employees of a companied are trained to defend their business, but not to argument in a debate. [/quote]

Since when? This forum is simply a discussion place for people in general. ADV have online reps, they don't have to go sneaking around with aliases. I never saw a sign saying "Anime Fans Only", I see it as a discussion place for anyone who happens to be interested. People aren't "trained" to defend their company, it's just the people who believe in it enough to actually post online tend to defend it because it is their jobs. It is their livelyhood, it's how they feed their family and live their lives.

Defending your business would be an argument in a debate.

Quote:

Still, I hope ADV employees that infiltrate in this forum, can reply at least to some of the statements made by fans instead of trying to attack them on a personal level ("you don't know anything about Japanese language" "how you dare to write an opinion" and such...).

Looking over (though I might be wrong), no one has actually posted any kind of personal attack against you that wasn't already warrented by previous, relevant posts that were emphasising on currently falunted- but non-flaut worthy traits (see the "list X favourite X worst anime" thread with Otaku America, for example). People have disagreed with you, to which you are simply ignoring and assuming that somehow everything is fine, while still asserting that you are correct, when you aren't.

Quote:

Looks like ADV needs to hire more people to post, because (at least in this thread) for every person defending them, there are like 3 that opposite. Perhaps, we all live in AntonmonterLand?

90% of all statistics are made up.

There is just so much wrong in this thread, and considering the article did nothing more than the oh-so-unforgiveable "this show isn't very good. Now they made it good!" which must MUST be construed as advertising- tell me something, what would you have written? Please, out of curiosity.

Steventheeunuch wrote:

There is just so much wrong in this thread, and considering the article did nothing more than the oh-so-unforgiveable "this show isn't very good. Now they made it good!" which must MUST be construed as advertising- tell me something, what would you have written? Please, out of curiosity.

Sounds like an Evil Plot to resurrect Carl Mazeck (by far, the anticrist of anime). What they do next? Mix 3 series that perhaps won't be profitable and "create" a new one by editing the video and changing the script? Come on! I thought anime retail industry in America was beyond that crap.

I don't blame them for trying to appeal non hardcore anime fans, but that does not impede that real anime fans critize (or ignore) their products.

antonmonter wrote:

Sounds like an Evil Plot to resurrect Carl Mazeck (by far, the anticrist of anime). What they do next? Mix 3 series that perhaps won't be profitable and "create" a new one by editing the video and changing the script? Come on! I thought anime retail industry in America was beyond that crap.

I don't blame them for trying to appeal non hardcore anime fans, but that does not impede that real anime fans critize (or ignore) their products.

(Macek was actually laid off some months ago due to large staff cuts)

Once again you are missing a mark (Macek, by the way, and I happen to like Robotech even before ADV was formed and even after I found out about it's origins). The Anime industry is beyond that, but I can't help but feel a bit less faithful in your words through this post alone. If you're going to reply in regards to something atleast make a coherant and relevant point. I took the time to do that, as should you.

(and I'll choose to ignore the "real anime fan" thing, since "impede" doesn't belong in that sentence and you're assuming the only "real" fans are ones who criticize and ignore it.. please re-state what you mean, this time sans the silly interjections of "wit", please)

Andromeda wrote:

All that stuff...

I must say, WELL SAID, i couldn't say it better myself.

I prefer dubs over subs most of the time, but variably depends on the show. Sometimes I even watch both to see the minute differences. For me, it's not always about the actual translation though. Sometimes it's how the voices present the dialogue. Take Kodocha, for example. I LOVE the dub!!! Laura Bailey is perfect as Sana, and is more enjoyable to watch than the jp VA. However, the dub was toned down, so i watched it subbed the 3rd time around, and found the sub to be more entertaining script-wise, but voice-wise, the eng VAs were more enjoyable.

The point i was trying to make was that the fact that the dub is going to be based on entirely original material is perfectly fine with me. It will do nothing more than encourage me to watch it twice... the run-o'-the-mill kids' show(i liked soar high isami, so this shouldn't be too bad), and an over-the-top parody dub. I would highly doubt(and hope not) that this would become a "practice", but nevertheless, i'm still am going to enjoy seeing two takes on the same story.

I also believe that adv's translations are decently done. As long as they get the same point across as the actual translation, it's fine with me. Funny how a "mediocre kids' title" is getting all this attention when they have Princess Tutu(an excellently translated and "art"ful title btw), one of the best animes they have, just collecting dust on the side.

antonmonter wrote:

I don't blame them for trying to appeal non hardcore anime fans, but that does not impede that real anime fans critize (or ignore) their products.

Steven left it alone, but i wont. Define for me what is a "real" anime fan? oh wait, that made it sound like it can be a factual statement. Let me rephrase that... What do you consider to be a "real" anime fan?

Joe Mello wrote:

lantis wrote:

Joe Mello wrote:

For some reason, this sounds to me like the first corporate fan parody. That gets a w00t from me.

I would have to say that Shinesman should probably get that title. Although the Japanese is also sort of a comedy, Scott Houle's take on it for Media Blasters is always a big hit at any show and probably doesn't include most of the original script either.

I see your point, but Shinesman was satirical in both languages.

Zac wrote:

Use a little logic.

On this board, it seems easier said than done, I'm afraid.

And if this really was the biggest bombshell of the con, then it must've about as meh as Ghost Stories. (relatively speaking)

Most anime fans know that Shinesman is a one-shot OAV. Ghost Stories is an enitire TV series length format.

I would guess that ADV is banking on the casual fan to pick this title up. Granted, there are more casual fans out there than five years ago.

I'm still disappointed to learn that the background music in ADV's US region 1 release Area 88 is not theorginal.... Evil or Very Mad

Steventheeunuch wrote:

antonmonter wrote:

Sounds like an Evil Plot to resurrect Carl Mazeck (by far, the anticrist of anime). What they do next? Mix 3 series that perhaps won't be profitable and "create" a new one by editing the video and changing the script? Come on! I thought anime retail industry in America was beyond that crap.

I don't blame them for trying to appeal non hardcore anime fans, but that does not impede that real anime fans critize (or ignore) their products.

(Macek was actually laid off some months ago due to large staff cuts)

Once again you are missing a mark (Macek, by the way, and I happen to like Robotech even before ADV was formed and even after I found out about it's origins). The Anime industry is beyond that, but I can't help but feel a bit less faithful in your words through this post alone. If you're going to reply in regards to something atleast make a coherant and relevant point. I took the time to do that, as should you.

(and I'll choose to ignore the "real anime fan" thing, since "impede" doesn't belong in that sentence and you're assuming the only "real" fans are ones who criticize and ignore it.. please re-state what you mean, this time sans the silly interjections of "wit", please)

I will second Steven's comments. Carl isn't the anti-christ. Get off it people. Carl was ahead of the industry when he predicted everyone would be English dubbing. The voice acting done in those Streamline production had some very great VAs. Companies today could still learn a thing or two.

I moderated con pannels back in the mid-90s. Carl was always a staight-up guy and gave you his opinion to a question. (even to the dick-idiots in the audience)

Whatever "problem" some have with Robotech....(gawd this argument again) was done to get the content aired on syndicated US television in the 1980s. ADV changed the literal Japanese script of the Enlgish Dub of Ghost Stories for potential US direct market and Cable TV.

nuff said.

ladholyman wrote:

Pretty popular show, this Gakkou no Kaidan, back in Taiwan on Animax Asia

Yup, I watched a few episodes of Ghosts at School last year on Animax Asia.

The first one was in Japanese w/English subtitles then the second time, which was around 4 months after, it was shown in Asian English dub (maybe they were Singapore in-house dubbers for Animax, I think).

Anyways, nothing usual. Just 20 episodes for an average show such as this. The ending video was slightly censored (while the song is running).

But going back to the topic,

I've just read the article on the front page and I can see what all the commotion and 5 pages of replying are all about.

If so, what is the big deal?????

Even if they make a new script (rather than the common SOP for dubbing which is just translating the language based on the orig Japanese. script), it wouldn't matter at all.

The point of the story is there. Even if the execution may be totally different, as long as the common idea/plot, which is present in the original Japanese. version, is still seen in this English version, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with this.

The way I see it, as long as the key element or basically, the "thing" that says what the show is all about is present, then it is still Gakkou no Kaidan and not a totally different show.

Maybe this could be a something positive.

Here in Asia, Ghosts at School is just a so-so program here on Animax which is considered as a ghost-story show mostly for kiddies (I think in 2002, Animax Asia classified this show under their "Youth Hour" timeblock).

Not even popular and heck, UFO Baby (a.k.a. Daa Daa Daa), which was also showing on Animax (and is still showing up to this date) was even more popular and more watched than Ghosts at School.

So, this was normally considered as a low-class or unpopular show that's why I can see why ADV did such when they brought it to the US.

So in short, I don't think there is a need for such a huge fuss over something like this.

I too saw this back in the Philippines, after the hurdle that is the first episode, I found it rather enjoyable but I'm not really looking into buying it...

but then now I might at least check back on it just to see the dub if anything

--------------------------------------------------

I'd read through all the stuff, but it's just a case of a bunch of people whining again

*If anything though, I'd probably be on Steventhechurch's side since he's really one of the few members that actually stands out here... I have no idea who everyone else it (for the most part)*

I'm surprised that this even caught up a lot of stuff, just because the reviewer praises the dub...

I mean, Jesus Christ, isn't the DVD coming with the original dialogue?

Suck it up

I take issue with the proclamation that Gakkou no Kaidan has "zero fans in the states". I'll admit that it isn't a 4 star title, and that there isn't much buzz, but such an extreme assumption flies against common sense. I, at least, found the original to be an enjoyable show, and I doubt I'm the only one.

I also can't be the only one to get a sense of foreboding when I hear such praise about work like this. I don't object to alterations in a script; I wish some shows would do it more often to rework awkward dialogue and scenes or jokes that just don't translate. But there's got to be a limit. Rewriting a character and adding pop-culture references just to sell more copies isn't ingenious, it's pandering.

And if the reviewer thinks I have a "stick wedged firmly into someplace uncomfortable", I'll be happy to meet him on the playground of his choice and stick it where the sun don't shine.

I'm going to echo some other sentiments concerning this title and say that there was a real condescending tone prevalent in this review. I was actually interested in this title before all this hoopla so it seems silly to assume that this title would have little to no fans.

So let's get this straight... ADV pretty much pulls an opposite 4-Kids; taking a kids show and totally rewriting and redubbing it for an older audience, thus abandoning real point of the show? That's pretty f'ed up. Is there a sub option on the disc?

Despite that, I'm curious.

Yeah I'm pretty sure this release does have a sub option. I guess that's looking on the bright side of things.

All I can say is, is that even though people like Zac and myself have surely seen this kind of show before a million times, there are how many new anime fans coming into things for the first time every day? For someone, this would have been a new experience and something that they'd enjoy.

The fact that some places, like ICV2, are saying things like "[...] f successful, it may engender a new art form, with anime visuals and new scripts. " give more than enough pause to those who've worked hard over the years to get better and better acted and accurate scripts for dubs. I had zero issue with Super Milk-Chan since both dubs were available, but something like this certainly gives many people a reason to be concerned.

hooliganj wrote:

I take issue with the proclamation that Gakkou no Kaidan has "zero fans in the states". I'll admit that it isn't a 4 star title, and that there isn't much buzz, but such an extreme assumption flies against common sense. I, at least, found the original to be an enjoyable show, and I doubt I'm the only one.

I also can't be the only one to get a sense of foreboding when I hear such praise about work like this. I don't object to alterations in a script; I wish some shows would do it more often to rework awkward dialogue and scenes or jokes that just don't translate. But there's got to be a limit. Rewriting a character and adding pop-culture references just to sell more copies isn't ingenious, it's pandering.

And if the reviewer thinks I have a "stick wedged firmly into someplace uncomfortable", I'll be happy to meet him on the playground of his choice and stick it where the sun don't shine.

There's a whole other thread for this preview here:
animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16834

And kindly take the internet tough guy "I'll beat you up" talk to some forum where they tolerate nonsense like that.

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