Forum - View topic

REVIEW: Ghost Stories

hooliganj wrote:

I take issue with the proclamation that Gakkou no Kaidan has "zero fans in the states". I'll admit that it isn't a 4 star title, and that there isn't much buzz, but such an extreme assumption flies against common sense. I, at least, found the original to be an enjoyable show, and I doubt I'm the only one. I also can't be the only one to get a sense of foreboding when I hear such praise about work like this. I don't object to alterations in a script; I wish some shows would do it more often to rework awkward dialogue and scenes or jokes that just don't translate. But there's got to be a limit. Rewriting a character and adding pop-culture references just to sell more copies isn't ingenious, it's pandering. And if the reviewer thinks I have a "stick wedged firmly into someplace uncomfortable", I'll be happy to meet him on the playground of his choice and stick it where the sun don't shine.

There's a whole other thread for this preview here:
animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16834

And kindly take the internet tough guy "I'll beat you up" talk to some forum where they tolerate nonsense like that.

As for the "beat you up" talk, it was simply a response to the rather juvenile condescension I found in the article. Judging by the responses in the rest of this thread, your preview article contained a similar tone.

Instead I'll offer a wild speculation, one that is as groundless and based on derivative interpretation as some of the statements in the review. How much money changed hands to make a supposedly unbiased reviewer espouse this dub so closely? Before you get insulted, remember that I imagine this implication to be as true as the statement that Gakkou no Kaidan has 0 fans.

Yes, I'm sure those "groundless" statements in the review were meant to be taken as 100% sincere and factual and not at all derived from a tongue-in-cheek sense of humor.

Sarcasm aside, I was sure that they were; hence my original, equally tongue-in-cheek response about what to do with the stick.

However, my response was taken more seriously, and so I am forced to assume that a sense of humor was also absent in the original review, and equally not welcome here, in which case the statemens were groundless, and not a little offensive.

The problem is the fact that people are calling themselves "Anime" fans when they don't even like "Anime". Anime is a Japanese product. It's Japanese. Deal with it. If you like the dub of an anime, especially if it's altered to fit your normal sense of aesthetics and humor, that's fine, but realize you're not actually liking the original product, which is Anime. It isn't the same as liking Kung-fu movies. Kung-fu movies has kung-fu, and that's what you're looking for. You don't care what the people are saying.

Anime has no set goal like showing the viewer kung-fu.

(Macek, by the way, and I happen to like Robotech even before ADV was formed and even after I found out about it's origins).

What people need to realise is that just because you are entitled to an opinion, doesn't mean it's always appropriate or nessecary to voice it, and it most certianly isn't always right.

Well, its a tricky subject to tell what opinions are appropriate or necessary to voice, I can tell that yours or Andromeda aren't

; but still I rebate your points

, not your right to express such derogatory opinions against other fans (like me) that dislike ADV business practices.

And well, I don't care if you think I'm less an anime fan than you, because I had more than 10 years enjoying anime, and more than 3 years studying Japanese, so I'm over your qualification.

Of course I care if someone in this forum is an ADV employee, because this is a forum intended to anime fans, and the employees of a companied are trained to defend their business, but not to argument in a debate. Still, I hope ADV employees that infiltrate in this forum, can reply at least to some of the statements made by fans instead of trying to attack them on a personal level ("you don't know anything about Japanese language" "how you dare to write an opinion" and such...).

Since some people here want to write in business terms, I think ADV must have to understand that negative posts in this thread are not an attack, but instead is "consummer feedback".

Still, looks like ADV needs to hire more people to post, because (at least in this thread) for every person defending them, there are like 3 that opposite. Perhaps, we all live in AntonmonterLand?

I mean, Jesus Christ, isn't the DVD coming with the original dialogue?

Suck it up

What happened to the original thread?

But this whole thing with Ghost Stories make me suspect that ANN's objectivity might be for sale to the highest bidder. Just how much money does a company have to spend for advertising in order to get a good review?

Hopefully my belief in the site can be redeemed.

What's John's Opinion of the Ghost Stories Dub?
August 26th, 2005

Question:

I just recently read the news post about ADV's plans for Gakkou no Kaiden. I'm wondering... what the heck are they thinking? I thought that ADV was getting better about doing such things to their titles, but now not it appears that not only are they changing it, but bosting about the changes. Do you have any idea why they would do this? And what was the original story suppose to be like?
Answer:

As an "old school" American anime fan, my personal hope has always been to see American viewers embrace, understand, and respect Japanese animation. I think that was the collective hope of early generations of American anime fans. In recent years, though, the trend in America has been toward not accepting or recognizing the unique cultural and artistic characteristics of anime, but instead altering Japanese anime to make it more palatable for mainstream American viewers. Drastic alterations have been made to titles including One Piece, Initial D, Ojamajo Doremi, and Tokyo Mew Mew in recent years. These changes have been imposed in order to make these shows suitable for American television broadcast. Regrettably we've also seen AD Vision inflict drastic alterations upon Sorcerous Stabber Orphen and now Gakkou no Kaiden seemingly for arbitrary reasons. The corruption of Orphen and Initial D caused outrage within the American fan community, but perhaps as a sad sign of the times, the bastardization of Gakkou no Kaiden, to be known as "Ghost Stories," in America, has been met largely with approval from the American fan community. I'm aware that my own opinion contradicts the seeming majority opinion in America's fan community. I don't express dissent in order to be controversial or petulant; I honestly and wholeheartedly believe in respecting the dignity of Japanese animation and feel disappointed and appalled by seemingly inconsiderate American localizations.

The 20 episode Gakkou no Kaiden anime television series from 2000 is part of a major Japanese franchise which includes at least 19 novels, a live action television series, and numerous television and theatrical live action movies all dealing with children trapped in a haunted schoolhouse. I've personally seen several episodes of the anime series and one of the live action theatrical movies. I was surprised to find the Gakkou no Kaiden anime TV series dark, macabre, and quite intense considering that it's a show aimed at pre-adolescent and young teen viewers. The original Japanese program has an atmosphere of dread and contains a palpable threat of harm or even death. Considering that it is a children's anime series, it's not as morose as a show like Berserk or Devilman Lady, but the Gakkou no Kaiden anime is far removed from comedy. Although Anime News Network has called the show, "The epitome of a bottom-shelf, bargain bin title," the show is quite respected among Japanese fans. In Studio Pierrot's 25th anniversary poll, Japanese fans voted Gakkou no Kaiden their 7th favorite Studio Pierrot production, ranking it higher than GTO, Naruto, Urusei Yatsura, Fushigi Yuugi, and Flame of Recca.

At the 2005 Otakon convention, AD Vision proudly revealed that its English language dub of "Ghost Stories" is almost totally improvised by its American voice actors. ICv2 News calls the English dub, "Totally Americanized... raunchier and hipper than the original." Anime News Network praises, "Thank god for ADV Films... they’ve done something very wise: completely screwed with the dub script and turned what was once a painfully uninteresting kids’ series into an absolutely hilarious show for adults." Anime on DVD calls the English improv dub, "Well worth watching." In the interest of even handed reporting, I'll admit that I have not sampled the English dub. I have no interest whatsoever in watching this dub and regretfully expect to refrain from buying the American release of this series. I've read online forum comments from fans expressing tolerance because the domestic DVDs will include an unmolested Japanese language track with subtitles. I don't expect or insist that anyone else share my stance, but the inclusion of a proper Japanese language version on the DVD isn't good enough for me. I'm personally offended by the principle of totally altering not just the script, but the entire tone of an anime series. While I'm a fan of both Orphen and Initial D, I refused to purchase their official domestic DVD releases. Likewise, my singular boycott of the American "Ghost Stories" will be my individual way of expressing my opinion that Japanese licensors and American distributors only deserve my support when they release unmolested, authentic Japanese animation. I don't want my money to encourage, as ICv2 says, "A new art form, with anime visuals and new scripts." I like anime because it's unique, intelligent and different from what I'm used to. If I want to watch an animated series filled with American pop culture references and crude American humor, I'll watch South Park or Family Guy.

The presumption within the fan community is that AD Vision's re-write is intended to make Gakkou no Kaiden more marketable in America. That rationale, while likely true, is startling and disappointing in light of the countless times I've heard American anime fans complain that current anime lacks variety or originality. Anime News Network goes as far as to say, "The whole 'plucky kids solve ghost-related mysteries' story has been done to death." However, I can't think of any other currently available anime series in America that deals with children facing-off against ghosts. The Haunted Junction series loosely dealt with a similar concept, but Haunted Junction was overtly a comedy. It's also now out of print in America. In fact, the only anime series that I can think of which has a horror theme for children similar to Gakkou no Kaiden is the 1996 Hell Teacher Nube television series, which has never been officially released in America. American anime fans often complain about excessive fan service, harem anime, and the visual "look" of contemporary digital anime and CG, yet when a show comes along that rejects all of these clichés, it's anticipated to be so unpopular among American consumers that its American distributor has to totally "Americanize" it to draw attention to it and make it palatable to average American consumers.

As I've stated before, I'm a fan of authentic Japanese animation; not anime that's been run through the blender of American perception and convention. The argument that alterations to American release anime are made with the consent of Japanese licensors means little because most of the time the actual artists that create anime have no influence over the way anime is released in America. It's Japanese home video distribution companies, not artists, that consent to American alterations of anime. Furthermore, in most cases, American consumers will never know if original Japanese creators are actually aware of the changes made to anime in America, or if they've simply agreed to give free reign to American distributors who are more familiar with the American market. I'm not presumptuous enough to believe that I speak on behalf of all, or even the majority of American anime fans. I won't dictate what American anime fans should or shouldn't like or prefer to watch, but I personally refuse to accept or support American localizations of anime that blatantly disregard and undermine the work and creative effort Japanese artists have put into creating anime.