Forum - View topicThe Fall 2014 Anime Preview Guide- CROSS ANGE
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Lynx Amali
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1) It was. It's still on the clothes from her mother. Those are the same ones she was wearing then. 2) To be fair, it makes sense in the context we're given. With military organizations, some superior officers would abuse the newer recruits if their personality deemed it worthy. From what we saw of Ange, there would be no way she would've cooperated. 3) Racial abuse seems to be a big issue within the setting. Given that Ange was royalty and what not, she was probably influencing the masses to some degree, they probably jumped at the chance to 'put her in her place' so to speak. And the preview definitely did not fit the tone. It definitely was very old fashioned in the regard when a lot of old mecha shows would have a serious episode but the preview would be relatively light hearted.
I was more confused by the hiding of the Kira Yamato look-a-like (Like, seriously. Same facial design, same eyes, same hair color.) and the general SEED Destiny vibe I got followed by the ED (complete with the scroll!) Damn it, Fukuda. Go back to Cyber Formula or Dendoh. PLEASE. Last edited by Lynx Amali on Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:14 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Beautifully-shot torture porn is still torture porn. You reach a point where content overwhelms production value and the latter becomes unimportant in your evaluation. "Here's a gross, hateful show that potentially normalizes leering fanservice rape scenes in late night broadcast anime, but it sure is polished!" seems like something someone would say as a joke. |
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Surrender Artist
 Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
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I think that from these previews I can pretty definitively dismiss the idea of me watching Cross Ange. I always expected that I would be discouraged, but because it would turn out to be dull and tedious, which I often find mecha shows to be, not nastily awful. If I'm entirely honest, there is a deep, dark part of me that's morbidly curious and that would enjoy a little unabashedly exploitative lesbianism, but not in a joyless context and I would end up switching between being bored and feeling bad for watching it.
Trying to use themes of prejudice and dehumanization in a pronouncedly unrealistic show show otherwise about exploitation film lesbians in giant robots fighting interdimensional dragons seems pretty misguided, if not wrong. Tone and context matter; in this case, they seem like a distastefully mismatched mess. Incorporating sexual assault, especially as it is supposedly portrayed, into such a context seems like a similarly very bad idea. If there were some elaborate metaphor or symbolic reason for it at work, I would be intrigued, but I'm pretty sure that Cross Ange lacks such ambitions or would be smart enough to execute them if it did. I'm not very enthusiastic about this season so far. I hope that at least one of the MAPPA shows goes over well, even if I have to put up with watching them through FUNIMation, and that the second part of Chaika the Coffin Princess at least nearly equals the first. Oh well, if all else fails, I still have Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Stardust Crusaders to catch up on.
It's sort of ridiculous to me that you're so dismissive and condescending toward it being pointed out and indeed emphasized as bad. You can't be that overly invested in or obscenely fragile about enjoying your cartoon shows. Further, nobody here is asserting that should be banned from narrative. Very few people would. To suggest that criticizing its inclusion or the manner of portrayal amounts to some sort proposed ban is disingenuous. The merits of using sexual assault in fiction is dependent upon the situation wherein it is show, how it is shown, how it is framed and how the characters react. To act as though it's only about its presence or absence is stupid, reductionist defense lawyering. Last edited by Surrender Artist on Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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The show is dark and maybe that "medical examination" scene wasn't strictly necessary although I do think it works. If you throw away that scene does your evaluation of the anime improve ? Just curious. You're right that beautifully shot torture porn is still torture porn. Yet it still is a beautifully animated production you can't deny it. I love/hate Legend of the Overfiend. It's a beautifully shot OVA, yet the level of violence and sexual mutilation is just so over the board that I'm repugned by it and haven't had the guts to watch it again. Once was more than enough 20 years ago.
Rape scene[s]. We've seen only one so far. I don't think we will see more of them. It is fan service in full force yet it has a role within the anime. You may not like it, but that scene was in my opinion necessary to show that the main character has been dispossessed of everything at that point. It's like the princess is dead and whoever re-emerges from that ordeal will be a different person. Now if the anime goes into full torture porn as you call it them I'll drop it. I don't want to see ultraviolence and psycological torture for 26 episodes straight. |
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 647 |
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If you think it's necessary to include sexual violence to force characterization then you've probably over exposed yourself to shitty writing. On the writing alone that's a terrible decision. That's even if you completely ignore how the camera plays up the titillation of the scene. Coupled with the camerawork and clear loving detail of ass and panties it becomes offensive. Then further add in the complete tonal shift of the next episode preview and it's inexcusably gross. Not one of those decisions was necessary, and seeing the full package of them multiplies just how unnecessary and gross they were. |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13229 |
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It's just that how some people vehemently condemn such things gives off the vibe that they're saying "this is horrible and I'm going to loudly proclaim that it's horrible because I'm actually a little turned on by it and I have to convince myself and others that I'm really not!"
Well, you could have fooled me because it sounds like people are upset that such a thing was included period rather than how it was portrayed. Ange was stripped of her rights, her possessions, and is being forced into military service against her will. In such a situation she was going to be treated the way she was, not pampered and given a friendly pat on the back. |
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fnord
 Posts: 8 |
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Reading these reviews fills me with a sense of bizarre amazement. Amusement, too.
Contrary to the other contributors in this thread I will not debate the actual content of Cross Ange and whether or not it's misogynist. In my opinion it clearly is, regardless of what was and wasn't rape. I'm also not going to talk about whether Ange adequately tackles touchy subjects like discrimination. I will, however, add that I don't consider this torture porn, simply because actual torture porn is much more drastic. Have any of the reviewers seen movies like Hostel? Evidently not, and so they should refrain from using established terminology. Instead I would like to say that these reviewers have the wrong hobby and/or job, depending on how much time they devote to ANN reviews. Applying Western concepts of gender equality to anime is incredibly pointless. The Japanese will not care. They will not stop making anime like this just because some social justice warriors in the West are waving the war flag. You're not the primary audience of this show. You're just people who, for a fee, are permitted to watch it. If the reviewers dislike watching sexist content, then the only smart course of action would be to cease watching anime, because most anime for a male audience is sexist to one degree or another. Likewise, expecting the Japanese to have a fair and balanced opinion on discrimination when the country has never come to grips with its own past or dealt with discrimination issues rampant in its contemporary society is completely absurd. Cross Ange will not treat the subject of "subhumans" with dignity. Having the expectation that it would or might is a pipe dream, especially when the country is slowly moving towards the right. Ultimately this boils down to whether it makes sense to apply Western standards to something that isn't Western. I think it's a waste of time. You can take Cross Ange for what it is and see if you can look past the aspects that you dislike to find something you do, or you can ignore it for lack of compatibility. Writing yourself into a rage lambasting it is utterly fruitless. |
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Philmister978
Posts: 305 |
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Yeah, I will agree to that, but I've heard complaints about the character designs and the CGI, which while serves as the least of the show's issues, should be important enough to at least warrant one sentence. @fnord: You forget that this is an anime website, they'll do as they please, even if it's trudging through pander-y, self-loathing garbage like this. Shonen Jump Weekly overtones or not, you can't deny what your seeing is wrong, and everyone who was involved on the production (or the viewers who even remotely enjoyed it) should be ashamed of themselves. |
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notrogersmith
 Posts: 192 |
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It seems pretty clear to me that the problem was that the apparent rape was shown as fanservice. If the episode had avoided male-gazey stuff from the get-go and portrayed the seeming rape scene as if it were supposed to be a gut punch to the audience, you wouldn't be seeing the complaints that have been seen in the preview guide. |
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fnord
Posts: 8 |
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You care far too much. Yes, this is an anime website dedicated to writing about anime. I didn't reject their right to write about Ange in whatever way they see fit. It's just a pointless exercise. On their own site everyone can write about whatever inane nonsense they want - and in their own country other people can make whatever TV show they want. Let me make it clear that this is not about my own opinion about Cross Ange. I agree entirely that it's a sexist show. So? The Japanese are making literally dozens of those per year. Even shoujo manga are often deeply sexist. If you can't look past that and find something to enjoy, you have the wrong hobby. You really shouldn't be watching anime. Your Shonen Jump Weekly rage is not going to do anything productive. It's not going to change the mentality in Japan, it's not going to change this particular show, and most importantly, it's not going to help you find enjoyment in this show or another. What's the point? |
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Fipse
 Posts: 74 |
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Ange had it coming. She is a racist bitch who tells a mother that her child is a monster and has to get rid of it. You are not supposed to feel pity for her during the torture (it is no rape). You are supposed to hate her.
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notrogersmith
Posts: 192 |
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The point is to give a preview of the first episode of the show so that potential viewers can decide whether it's worth their time to watch it themselves. |
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Vent
 Posts: 318 |
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This is probably the worst possible thing anyone could have said in this thread. EDIT: Hell I'm not even going to repeat it |
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Fipse
Posts: 74 |
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Does the truth hurt? She is a racist. Simple fact. |
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Shippoyasha
Posts: 459 |
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Fair enough mate. I came across too strongly there and I apologize. |
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