Forum - View topicDoes Noir have to do with Madlax, and which did you prefer?
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18182 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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So you guys are saying that Madlax's OTT scenes are more acceptable because they're explained away by spoiler[an astoundingly advanced level of mysticism], whereas Noir's aren't? Noir's are at least semi-grounded in the realm of physical possibility, with no (major spoiler) spoiler[indestructible perfect mystically-created split-personality-gaining-physical-form duplicate] running around. And if you guys are going to keep insisting that Noir "jumped the shark" much more often than Madlax did, then I challenge you to back it up with numbers. Granted, it's been a while since I've seen either series, but I clearly recall more action scenes in Madlax that made me roll my eyes than there ever were in Noir. Actually, I partly take that back. It could be true simply because Noir, IIRC, had a much higher number of total action scenes since it didn't have to split its story between the two main characters for almost 2/3 of the series. But is Noir proportionately any worse? I seriously doubt hard numbers would strongly back that up. |
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HitokiriShadow
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The OTTness didn't really bother me in either one (well, it was a little silly in Madlax until the explanation but not a big deal). But in light of that explanation, I found Madlax more plausible and actually required less suspension of disbelief than Noir. But really, that has nothing to do with why I preferred Madlax to Noir, I was just offering my 2 cents on the issue at hand.
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legendfunk
 Posts: 101 Location: Sydney, Australia |
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I'm not saying being OTT is a bad thing, I mean, as I said, no human can really expand their eyes and pop them out when excited, so really, Noir is unique like that in its own respect. Generally, those scenes could be considered Bee Train's defenition of "fanservice" or some other form of exciting the audience.
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Boomer
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The only thing real about Noir is its alleged commitment to physical reality, which it contemptuously tosses aside by serving up action scenes that strain credulity beyond the breaking point. Noir had a higher number of action scenes because it was lacking in plot and characterization and needed filler. Every action scene in Noir made me roll my eyes, especially when Mireille and Kirika were racking up an average of two dozen bodies an episode. That is almost as many as in all of Madlax. Aside from plot and aesthetics, Madlax outshines Noir in its characterization, as legendfunk said. Neither of the latter's lead characters showed any traits or demonstrated any behaviors that made me want to give a damn about what happened to them. Being an ice queen (Mireille) and a blank slate (Kirika) was not enough to make me care. |
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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I agree that Noir's leads left a lot to be desired and was part of the reason I didn't care for Noir much, but Madlax's were not a huge improvement. They were better, IMO, but not by a wide margin. What Madlax had was a solid supporting case (Vanessa, Elenore, even Corrosea or whatever his name was) and a much, much stronger plot.
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18182 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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This discussion is starting to go in circles. What this ultimately comes down to is that Madlax indisputably has a slight edge in technical merits and a distinct edge in supporting characters, but is also indisputably derivative of, and at least vaguely patterned off of, Noir, and definitely has less action. Every other comparison between the two series, including which series is fundamentally better (I say they're equal but liked Noir a little more) is subject to wide disagreement. |
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Vuwazy
Posts: 208 |
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Heh. Rei Ayanami is who Kirika reminded of when I saw Noir. In that they are at times quiet. Not that anything is wrong with it. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Astraea
 Posts: 85 |
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I'm slowly re-watching Noir now, about three years since I originally watched it.
Even then, I knew what I disliked about it - the action scenes were entertaining but often unrealistic (e.g the number of times Mirielle and Kirika were shot at from no distance at all, and yet were unharmed) - a pain in a series which was more or less grounded in reality. The weak portrayal of male characters irritated me, though arguably this was a deliberate method of dehumanising them, rather than laziness of the part of the writers. I also think the character development was more drawn out over too long a time, rather than sparse. Repetitive or not I loved, and still love, Yuki Kajiura's soundtrack. All-in-all, I really enjoy Noir. I haven't seen Madlax, though what I've gathered of its plot and fantasy elements definitely appeals. The only thing which kept me watching El Cazador was the character development between Ellis and Nadie. I wished that the whole Project Leviathan and history of the Witches had been expanded upon, but given the generally light-hearted tone of the series, I was fairly sure early on that it wasn't going to happen. A fun, but fairly insubstantial plot. |
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Boomer
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I only want to know which show El Cazador resembles more closely, Madlax or Noir, so that I can decide whether or not to watch it. |
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Astraea
Posts: 85 |
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As I said, I haven't seen Madlax, but I can tell you that El Cazador is unlike Noir in tone. Cazador has many moments of comedy and light-hearted episodes, a distinct contrast to Noir's melancholy feel. |
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HyugaHinata
 Posts: 3505 |
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WIN.  I also enjoyed Madlax far more than I did Noir. Madlax was paced much better.
Just think, though - if the villains in Noir had kevlar, the fight scenes would come close to Naruto-esque levels of padding. At least they remembered to animate the reloading sequences. |
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Boomer
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Hmm...Madlax is kind of melancholy too (in a good way), so I guess Cazador is quite different from both. Most of the humor in Madlax is found in the "Conversations with the SSS" "outtakes". |
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Porcupine
 Posts: 1033 |
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Really? Maybe the Noir sound track CD credits are wrong then (also not sure which country's version and OST number you are referring to). No big deal I guess. According to ANN Encyclopedia and the ADVision DVDs themselves, the intro song to Noir was done by ALI PROJECT which does a lot of Bee Train shows (sometimes OP/ED songs and sometimes BGM) and the ending song by some other singer or group Akino Arai whom I'm not otherwise familiar with. While the BGM to Noir is done by Yuki Kajiura, who also does a lot of Bee Train shows. Madlax was all done by Yuki Kajiura. |
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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In story stucture, El Cazador is far more similar to Noir. The two leads meet in the first episode and it is mostly episodic. However, the series is far, far lighter in tone than either Madlax or Noir. The plot is also pretty weak. While the overall story is decent, the execution is lacking, to say the least. If you watch for the plot, you won't care for it much. However, Nadie and Ellis are easily my favorite leads of the three Bee Train GWG series. They make a great pair and more than make up for the poor plot in my eyes. It also has a decent supporting case, though I wish they had done more with Blue Eyes. El Cazador has much less action than Noir or even Madlax. I think Nadie kills about 10 people over the course of the entire series (which is about how many Mirielle, Kirika, and Madlax killed in each episode). El Cazador also has about 10x as much blood as Madlax and Noir. Combined. That isn't saying much, but its clear that people in El Cazador's world actually bleed though they are a bit inconsistent on it. They generally avoid showing people getting shot on screen and get around it, but there are plenty of times you see bodies with bloody gunshot wounds or in pools of blood. What little action is there is generally at a much more believable level; Nadie is good, but she can't drop a dozen people in a minute without breaking a sweat. And while Noir and Madlax are somewhat infamous for their excessive flashbacks, El Cazador doesn't have many of them. It only does it four or five times. On another note, Taco taco taco, delicious tacos~ |
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