Forum - View topicANNCast - Smack to the Future
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Vapors
 Posts: 139 Location: Bay Area |
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Speaking of interviews whatever happened with that Oreimo one?
Also, hope you were kidding about the a person I disagree with politically stuff sending you to therapy. I mean, if your line of work (and I understand that moderating the forums is part of your responsibilities at ANN) requires therapy, maybe you should consider giving (or at least dividing out) that duty up. Been meaning to check out Future Diary. And while the rape scene in it is disappointing to hear about, I still remember hearing about the twist ending that would still compel me to check this out. I subscribe to Justin's viewpoint on this in that I am a little desensitized to these types of scenes (also because of hentai) and that events such as rape should be used only for advancement of character development or some kind of talking point. As he put it, if there is no gravity to the event, it becomes a cheap shock value thing. In a lot of ways, killings have already become this (with things like this in TV shows, movies, video games, etc), so hopefully rape isn't just casually thrown in there as well. Man, the more I hear about this legendary ANN Live episode at Otakon, the more I am bummed no one took video of this. Last edited by Vapors on Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mad_Scientist
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 3011 |
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Slight correction Zac: Future Diary is based on a manga, not a light novel.
One other thing. While it's been a long time since I watched that episode of Future Diary, and I do remember being bothered some by the rape scene, I know for sure there were no visible nipples in the simulcast version. It makes me wonder just how much more graphic the unedited version was. I haven't tracked it down to compare, and I'm not sure I even want to, but I wonder if this perhaps had something to do with the different reactions some people had. |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2553 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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This is simply a random thought that only came into mind while listening to this episode, but I think part of the reason why some people look at something like rape in something like anime is probably because those people are thinking one simple thing: "This is fiction." Because it's fiction it's not real, and because it's not real they don't think about it from a realistic perspective, i.e. "This isn't actually happening to a real person in this story, so why should I be offended?"
At the very least that's how I see it. Personally, I agree with what Zac & Justin said: If rape has to be used then put perspective into it; don't just use it for shock value that desensitizes it (and, in turn, makes the viewer desensitized). The only time I could accept rape being used for shock value is in Z-grade horror movies, where the movie itself has no values or morals in the first place, or if it's just used in an absolute ridiculous way, ala what Takeshi Miike does with violence... But, really, I can't think of any way to make that work with rape. Fun episode, by the way. |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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Future Diary was hyped up as this show that could do really good numbers if put on Toonami and its really distressing to hear about the rape scenes. It just has no place in an anime like that.
From what I have seen anti-feminism is easily worse in gamers then anime fans. I don't think I have ever seen a guy complain about how Bamboo Dong shouldn't do the Stream feature because she is a woman. Nobody is obsessed with Deb Aoki being a "real manga fan" or looking through her past. With games the entire discussion is toxic. Just look at Dragon's Crown, its by a developer the average gamer has never heard of and yet you have guys who don't know who George Kamitani is just showing up to make sure they are heard. You just have to wonder why the idea of just being a decent human being seems to be a foreign concept to these people. There is a difference between questioning sites like Kotaku which have a history of writing articles with sensationalist headlines and just being a total monster. |
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Divineking
 Posts: 1293 |
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I was kinda hoping Zac would see more of Future Diary to see his opinions on some of the later stuff but I can understand why he decided to stop. Personally I did find the rape scenes disturibing, but they fit the overall mood enough of the show to me to not be jarring enough to turn me off from it(and seeing the censored version first actually made the uncut version even more disturbing to me but eh). I was also the one who asked about it's chances on Toonami and I still think it might have worked with the censored version but that probably is a stretch.
I can agree the dub is pretty awful though. Brina Palencia being miscast as Yuno aside, the dialogue was incredibly unfiting for most of the context of the show. It is entertaining in a hilariously bad kind of way though. Some of Yuno's ridiculously cheesy lines made me giggle. |
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Levitz9
 Posts: 1022 Location: Puerto Rico |
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When it comes to the whole 'feminist' debate, people also tend to just not "get" a lot of the arguments. In my experience, it's (thankfully) not due to misogyny, but over not understanding concepts like male gaze or the Bechdel test. People are so desensitized by the allegorical "being in a bikini is sexist!" argument that when people try to discuss these issues, that's the one argument people defend against--usually with "eh, it's alright if they do it to guys, too" or "it's just clothes, who cares?".
People also argue "Oh, I bet you haven't even played the game/watched the show. If you haven't played the game/watched the show, what do you care? You're just criticizing to make waves! It's a good game/show, if you'd just watch/play it, you'd see what I mean!" So, yeah, there are a lot of really troublesome issues when discussing feminism in works (people I disagree with politically come to mind), but most of the problem is just people being misinformed over the subject. At least people are openly discussing it now. (Too bad it's right alongside stuff like the FFXIII-3 "boob" thing.) I like T&A, but if there were less of it, I wouldn't miss it. If it were handled better, I'd be a happy clam. |
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Asrialys
 Posts: 1160 |
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I read that a couple times, wondering why the A is capitalized, then I got it... lol |
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CG-LOVER
 Posts: 355 Location: East Lansing, MI |
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With regard to The Future Diary, I watched it a good while ago, but I do remember enjoying it. However, it certainly wasn't because the writing was especially great. I'll agree that the writing can definitely be lazy, and yes, the sudden tonal shifts could be jarring at times. However, I do think at the time I watched it I was more forgiving about the Q&A session because it centered around explaining the rules of the game, and so it only made sense to me that people would ask questions to make sure they knew for sure what those rules were. I mean it is a death game after all, you don't want to die just because you forgot one of the rules. Also, besides that instance I don't think there were really any other major Q&A sessions, unless it was someone having to explain something to Yukki (and yes, Zac is right when he says Yukki isn't the sharpest tool in the shed).
And while the initial "edgy" factor of the show was a bit of a draw for me, it certainly wasn't where I got most of my enjoyment. First, I thought that there was a lot of novelty in the way the diaries worked. Specifically I thought each individual character's diary was unique enough that I was eager to see how they would be put to use. Also, the strategies each character would employ in order to defeat their enemies was entertaining to watch. And finally, I did enjoy the over-the-top nature of the characters. I mean of course that isn't in any way realistic but that's not what I was expecting when I saw this anyway. Now I didn't really care about the characters mind you, I merely enjoyed seeing what unique traits each character had and how that factored into the game itself. Now, about the rape scenes. I just want to clarify my position on this because I was involved in the Twitter conversation Zac mentioned, and I really was not trying to imply that I'm never bothered by rape, or that I'm somehow a manly man if something doesn't bother me. In this case, and I did mention this on Twitter, like Mad_Scientist and Divineking, I also watched the censored simulcast version of this show, and that is all I ever watched. Some of the explicit details Zac mentioned the rape scenes having are details I don't necessarily recall there being in the version I watched. And if I were to see the uncensored version it's entirely possible that I could have been very bothered by what I saw. But with the version I watched, the scenes weren't so disturbing that it made me stop watching the show. As Divineking said, I felt that those scenes were within the general mood of that show in the same way that the school bombings were. And it's not like I had an "eh, whatever" attitude about those scenes either, as I definitely was disturbed by them to a certain degree (particularly by the spoiler[mass cult-wide rape of the cult leader]). It is true though that these types of scenes are all over anime, and I can't rule out that like Justin, I am also a little numb to this stuff. I'm not saying I'm happy about that or proud or anything even close to that, I'm just saying that desensitization in general could have been a factor. Last edited by CG-LOVER on Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:35 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Jave
 Posts: 198 |
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Kinda goes both ways there dont ya think?  There's plenty of stupid arguments I've seen when it comes to the issues of sexism from both sides. Can't say I see it brought up in anime though... just video games. Maybe since anime has an equal gender ratio of fans or something. Anywhoo, we live in a culture where sex and the human body is shamed but violence and gore is A-OK. Any argument about sex is going to be one-sided and biased because of that double standard in our culture where we were just taught to be ashamed of our bodies and sexual desires and most argument bases come from that. A lot of other cultures don't have that issue as much as we do. I wonder if people on either side of the argument even know what they want half the time
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asimpson2006
 Posts: 3151 Location: USA |
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In regards to Future Diary:
I did respond to Zac on twitter but then later removed my response. Having watched the show uncut myself just last week I wasn't bothered by the rape scene in the series, nor do rape scenes in entertainment bother me..at all. While I don't quite agree that this insistence was used for fetish purposes, I do felt that spoiler[it showed how messed up that cult is]. I'm not better than anyone because I don't get offended by material that others find offensive, I just can't get offended by material in fictional works or works with fictional characters. I'm also in a disagreement with the dub for Future Diary as I rather enjoyed it. I though Briana Palenica did a good job as Yuno, |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2553 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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Wow, I honestly didn't think I would be proven right in my random, during the podcast thought that I mentioned earlier... That's a surprise. |
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Mugley
 Posts: 43 |
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Re: Nerds
Agreed with Zac. Nerdy stuff is trendy at the moment so saying you're a nerd for liking Star Wars or superhero movies or Game of Thrones is hilarious True outcasty nerdiness is when you got tons of strange looks or called names for saying you like something. I'm 28 and if I say I like Power Rangers I don't think other people my age who grew up on it would make fun of me, they'd high five me and say the Green Ranger was badass or something. Now if I say I watch JAPANESE Power Rangers ie super sentai they'd be all like "Huh? Weird. Never seen that" 'nerd culture' vs 'nerd' culture. So that's why I only discuss sentai online since everyone who says like like Power Rangers does it out of nostalgia for it as a kid. Anime is kinda like that too in some circles. If you say you like Sailor Moon they call that a classic but if you say you watch Pretty Cure or other modern kid magical girl stuff they call you a pedo or weirdo or something or to stop watching kids shows.. ouch.
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Rahxephon91
 Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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I see that the counter arguments already up.
Finding some types of fanservice lame must mean you find the human body disgusting and "oh other countries are better because they show panties, so they must be progressive". I mean lets ignore the fact that hey maybe it not being an issue is well an issue until itself. Maybe it's not worse in anime, because people already gave up on anime long ago, I don't know. I sure have. Either way my only problem is not that male oriented sex stuff exists. Of course I'm fine with it, I like it here and there but that there's not much of the other side to balance it out. Lightning in XIII-3 is a perfect example, because they made an attractive female character that was more then that. That wasn't good enough and they felt the need to play up her sex appeal and make it more pronounced. She was already sexy. Grand Theft Auto 5 comes out and there is no respectable female character, I'm not even asking for a playable one, just one that isn't terrible. Everything dosen't need to be one way is all I'm saying. |
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Crispy45
 Posts: 363 |
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Makes sense why you'd hang out on anime forums then... >_> |
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Lavnovice9
Posts: 276 |
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Is "Oh America is better because they refuse to show panties, so they must be progressive" suppose to being better? If it comes to hiding it or being open about it it seems to be being open about it is the moral natural and mature thing to do. Everyone made a big deal about Janet Jackson's boob when really it shouldn't be a big deal to see a human body part and even South Park was making fun of how stupid everyone was being about the issue. |
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